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Feb 23, 2010, 04:06 AM // 04:06
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#481 | ||
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2010
Guild: [Pink]
Profession: P/
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Quote:
Quote:
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Feb 23, 2010, 04:17 AM // 04:17
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#482 | |
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Travelling around Tyria, Cantha, and Elona
Profession: P/W
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Quote:
 I am so very sorry, please forgive my inadequacy. Now then, since you've proven how high and mighty you are above me, please enlighten me further on how exactly you would make a mesmer build that can roll through pve while playing a significant role for their team? So far, I haven't gotten any good responses.
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Feb 23, 2010, 04:23 AM // 04:23
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#483 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
Guild: [DVDF] Gp
Profession: Me/A
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Quote:
<all subjective but still> Warior: earthshaker, We scythe Assassin: crit scythe, MbDb Ranger: pet+melee, barrage/turret Paragon: Imbagon Elem: er infoooozer Rit: spirit spam Derv: erm? pass. Necro: Mop nuker* SS, OuU MM Monk: woh, ap prot Mes : Echo sin spam Out of them, which most people consider to be about the top stuff(ish:P) Only the necro mop nuker and the mes sin spammer abuse that...(NOT counting disco way..thats a whole different topic) |
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Feb 23, 2010, 04:44 AM // 04:44
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#484 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2010
Guild: [Pink]
Profession: P/
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Quote:
Ineptitude Clumsiness Wandering Eye Conjure Nightmare Images of Remorse Arcane Echo Auspicious Incantation Glyph of lesser energy This is an old fashioned build that i created pre-eotn (wandering eye had been replaced by sig of clumsiness). While it is by no means a wonderfully effective build, I continue to roll through many vanquishes with it. Is it better than most of the meta PvE builds? of course not. All I am saying is that the sorry state of PvE is that it is incredibly easy with any profession. It (or my other mesmer builds) may not be as fast as the meta PvE builds, but they still beat PvE. This is the reason why I said the mesmer class isnt "crappy". They arnt as fast as other professions but they can still accomplish anything another profession can, even if it is a little slower. I should probably go ahead and mention (so that you dont discredit me by saying i rely completely on my team) that my heroes are currently an ER infuser, a minion master, and a Mes/Mo supporter with a healer henchie and three other henchies. Many times, I have completed these vanquishes with three mesmers (myself, gwen, and the henchie) with no trouble. Once again, I am only mentioning this to show that mesmers can beat PvE, though maybe not as fast as other professions. I am fully aware that my build and that mesmers in general are still slower than other professions. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 04:53 AM // 04:53
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#485 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Desert
Guild: Legions of Engalion [自由]
Profession: Mo/W
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Quote:
as a matter of boasting, i think i had my Assassin in ToA and farming ectos at L20 with 15 point attrib quests done within 6 hours. I finished the whole of factions and had elite luxon armour and elite canthan armour for my monk in 10hours (i obviously had too much cash from zkeys from all my pvp and had spare cash for the armour) and i have finished every capaign on my monk with only heros and hench. i play more pvp cause i am bored with high end areas being dominated purely by SF sins and Speed clear groups which i don;t find fun or exciting to monk for. i would rather the old school FoW monking or bonding. EDIT: or the crappy PVE monk builds people want me to run. for fun i ran a HA infuse bar in FoW and the Deep the other day (no PVE shit skills). and kept my team alive quite adequately. so, once again. back on topic. what has this got anything to do with mesmers? this is a topic relating to the upcoming skill updates. i don;t see any skill updates about mesmers. Edit : why do i have so many PvP characters? to be honest, i wouldn;t play warrior in PVE and in order to play mesmer correctly i beleive the only pre-requiste is to know how other classes work. perhaps if i enjoy mesmer enough i will make a PVE character to learn more for playing PVP. until then, i am quite happy to do PVE with monk and ele. EDIT (Again): All my posts are from early in the pages.. sorry if i have to sleep at night time. this thread has grown quite big and has been derailed quite a lot since then Last edited by Trinity Fire Angel; Feb 23, 2010 at 05:09 AM // 05:09.. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 04:59 AM // 04:59
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#486 | |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Apr 2006
Guild: [DVDF] Gp
Profession: Me/A
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Quote:
and ughhhh derailed from OP suitably now, next! Last edited by maxxfury; Feb 23, 2010 at 05:01 AM // 05:01.. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 05:05 AM // 05:05
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#487 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2010
Guild: [Pink]
Profession: P/
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Quote:
 . Although there are always going to be imbalances between the other classes, and there is always going to be a class at the bottom of the chain and one at the top, I am all for some buffs to mesmers so long as mesmers dont lose the aspects that make them... well... mesmers.
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Feb 23, 2010, 05:10 AM // 05:10
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#488 |
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jan 2008
Guild: Servants of the Dragon Flames [SODF]
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The mesmers need a buff, there's very little dispute on that issue. Let's not leave people out either... Dervishes and Paragons are pretty much in the same boat. Maybe even Rangers are underpowered because of how crappy bow damage is in comparison to just about everything else.
Still, the point of the thread is supposed to be about discussing the proposed skill changes, right? Discussing what NEEDS TO BE CHANGED isn't quite the same, and is already covered in a lot of other threads anyway. For an off topic remark: This thread now has close to 24 THOUSAND views!! Clearly we're getting some attention here... hopefully at least some of those views are from the people making decisions, otherwise we're just wasting our time. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 05:19 AM // 05:19
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#489 | |
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2010
Guild: [Pink]
Profession: P/
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Quote:
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Feb 23, 2010, 06:02 AM // 06:02
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#490 |
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I despise facebook
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Guild: Meeting of the Lost Minds
Profession: Me/
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I know they're watching, I'm also pretty sure that the more of our suggestions they implement in any form, the more it becomes openly admitted by them that we now know more about their game than they do.
I don't think this will happen. Fortunately, as I said before, some of this update is great for me. As much as I don't like the idea of every war rolling DBS builds, a large part of my reason for that is because it's going to make my own personal DBS build, which is already great, into a sheer terror monster. Even that has a flipside. I don't play my sin or rit because they're like that, and boring because of it.. @ Trinity. Nice list, but I'm not here to shatter you with my bigger epeen, and you still don't have any more real Mes experience than any other speculator with a brand new Mes still fresh out of it's wrapper. Some of your points are good, but overall you aren't seeing it all. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 06:18 AM // 06:18
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#491 | |
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Unbridled Enthusiasm!
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: EST
Guild: DPR
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Quote:
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Feb 23, 2010, 06:33 AM // 06:33
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#492 | |
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Desert
Guild: Legions of Engalion [自由]
Profession: Mo/W
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Quote:
ok. fair enuff. i guess i am used to blowing stuff up with my ele or monk when i wish to go ROJ. i know that my two mains are pretty much part of the holy trinity, so i don;t really get the whole mesmer thing in PVE. i know that mesmer is pretty much a key position in PVP. the game maker and game breaker in nearly every case i can think of. i did notice that mesmer hexes don;t seem to affect some monster skills (or do they???). perhaps this is a needed change. i did the rotscale using a mesmer hero with PD and Diversion and it didn;t seem to even disable any of his skills. The same was true for Glint in HM. No single skill could seem to interrupt any of his skills. I don;t think diversion works on monster skills... perhaps this might go some way to helping mesmers. maybe ANet needs to revert the way that Simple Thievery worked in PVE when it was first changed... ie... stealing monster skills. that would go a very very long way to bringing mesmers back into the fold. just make it a Fast Cast attribute... oh and change fast casting to inherently gain energy every time an action is interrupted. problem solvered |
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Feb 23, 2010, 07:24 AM // 07:24
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#493 | |
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Academy Page
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Between Earth and Sky
Guild: The Thuggee[lain]
Profession: N/
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Quote:
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Feb 23, 2010, 07:29 AM // 07:29
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#494 | |
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Grotto Attendant
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Guild: The German Order [GER]
Profession: N/
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Quote:
Quite generous damage reduction (stack Defy Pain with Shield Stance) ... I am not really afraid of any OF related nerfs. And worst, you will put Spell Breaker on your bars and just mainain it on tank. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 07:38 AM // 07:38
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#495 | |||
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wrocław, Poland
Guild: Midnight Mayhem
Profession: Me/
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Quote:
if so, i've missed it. but i don't think we know anything about that issue. Quote:
Quote:
i was hoping to see any changes after five months. even one skill buffed, or VoR reverted, or something tied to another attribute. seriously, anything. instead, as Upier noted, it reminds me of the april fools' 'update'. this time it's just not funny at all. i'll point it again. our whining is NOT about that mesmers can't complete the game. the game is easy, not counting a few places, and can be completed with even lol builds. our whining is NOT about mesmers not dealing enough damage in pve, as we realise that it's not a damaging class. the thread is NOT about mesmer heroes and their abilities in pve. we are aware of their godlike targeting and interrupting skills. and yes, they are useful for indirect protection, but still inferior to a good monk hero, especially that one will usually use two monks when h/h. our point is that when playing a mesmer, you have no mesmerish role in the group. you can't do what you have been designed for, as e-denial and interruptions suck in pve. as hexes are easily strippable and bosses have 1/2 hex duration, only to hit mesmers and necros with it (please note that it was already introduced in prophecies, where only those two classes actually use hexes). if you want to play in a group, you have to FULLY rely on your secondary class, running 'fast casting xyz' rather than using secondary class to support your primairy. that's pretty silly. our point is that fast casting is the worst primairy attribute and became redundant with the introduction of mindbender. mysticism and divine favor ain't directly powerful either, but they at least have the synergy with classes' skills. the only synergy between fc and mesmer skills is because some mesmer skills have longer cast times by design. our point is that if you use various mesmer skills, you have to wand mobs after casting several spells. i'd rather deal 50 damage every two seconds than 100 damage every four seconds (number for simplicity), as even though you get the same in the long run (or even the 50 damage is slower, due to aftercast delay), NOT being able to do anything because all your skills are recharging is simply killing the fun from playing. we don't need backfire to deal 150 damage, cost 5e and recharge in 3s. just cut it's recharge and cost down, damage as well a bit, so that you can actually use it on several caster mobs or cast again if it gets stripped rather than cast it and wand. our point is that mesmers have no designed role in a pve group. dervishes can easily tank, paragons can run imbagon to aid with 83% lowered damage on the whole party. although they do need some love, mesmers are even worse. if pve diversion had better recharge and worked on bosses, if blackout shutdowned three-four random skills and worked on all bosses... our point is that mesmers have no options to choose from in pve. it's similar to paragons. you either run imbagon or suck, as paras are generally underpowered themselves. it's also the point here - but it's even worse. you either run VoR and heavy domi/illusion hexes to at least do something or do completely nothing. our point is that mesmers had no love throughout the whole game's lifespan. instead of even trying to buff and balance them in pve, they got nerfed because of supposed pvp imbalance (see: VoR, it was perfect for pve and got thrashed because of completely another aspect of the game, while nothing was buffed in it's place). our point is that there are loads of useless skills, not only non-appealing for pve, but even pvp. there are loads of copied skills. there are skills randomly put in several various attributes what kills some of their synergy. i mean, take a look at the spell-stealing mesmer. SoI in illusion, arcane thievery in domination, the other stealing elite in fc. and you have to invest in inspiration for e-management. our point is that there is no synergy between mesmer skills now, in their effect. it was totally killed with the nerf of VoR, showing us that we can use only one skill a time on mobs just because so, as using two or more at once is weaker or similar to using one. our point is that there was no pve update for five months and after that already powerful and playable classes got buffed instead of the underpowered ones. it would be much better to see some para/derv love (giving paras options other than imbagon and making dervishes the most powerful class with a scythe), but another buff to rits is just insane. our point evolved in this thread is that loads of people not even playing mesmers in end-game try to enlight us with their wiki-knowledge. wiki lies. also we got struck by Shayne saying that, in his opinion, mesmers need no love as they are pvp class. it's also a lie - with the introduction of titles, one has to choose one main character, and all classes should be comparable in pve, playing different roles but having them more or less equally viable. and many many ideas how to fix mesmers were already posted in sardelac - turns out that no one reads or cares about that subforum. or maybe it's just mesmers again... our point is that 'splits are not game-friendly and we have to avoid them' but rits already have 32 splits and it's SO SO hard to split some mesmer skills. our point is that the supposed role of mesmers can be played better by other classes, but not them. the crown example here is that eles have maelstrom, while mesmers have no interrupt-over-time, not speaking even about aoe interrupts-over-time. our point is that whatever you can do on a mesmer, another class can do it better. mesmers are not specialists in anything, they don't shine with anything, their primairy attribute is the least useful, their insignias is just a joke. and to hit it even more, there are classes - rit, ele, nec - that can outclass mesmers at several fields at once. another idea to buff mesmers: add 'if that hex ends early' clause. there are loads of hex-stripping mobs in pve, oftenly in groups. so empathy inflicting long blindness if it ends early or backfire disabling three random spells would add great power to mesmerish mesmer. it would also add synergy with shatter delusions and so on. again, the possibilities are endless. edit: power in pve = how fast you can kill everything + how fast can you move + what are the odds of failing. since the introduction of heroes, you can set up a team build to have it all pumped up - the question now is how much you can contribute to either part. that's why SF is impossibly overpowered - sin can kill everything insanely fast, move insanely fast and be totally unkillable while doing so. even so underpowered class as a paragon is much faster and more stable than a mesmer in pve. even without the synergy from para heroes (haven't unlocked them yet). go into defensive para, preprot yourself, aggro mobs, keep them on you, ball them up and let RoJ hero finish them off, while still dealing moderate damage with your char. Last edited by drkn; Feb 25, 2010 at 01:06 PM // 13:06.. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 07:51 AM // 07:51
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#496 | ||
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I despise facebook
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Australia
Guild: Meeting of the Lost Minds
Profession: Me/
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Quote:
... ... . web of disruption.  ...... Quote:
Last edited by Turbo Ginsu; Feb 23, 2010 at 07:57 AM // 07:57.. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 07:55 AM // 07:55
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#497 | |
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wrocław, Poland
Guild: Midnight Mayhem
Profession: Me/
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Quote:
it's not over time. it's strippable. it's slow and expensive. it sucks :3 |
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Feb 23, 2010, 08:17 AM // 08:17
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#498 | ||
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Quote:
You have "no mesmerish role", becase the Mesmer never was designed to have one in PvE, and that's why what you've been designed for "sucks". To have the Mesmer fit PvE you can: - Define a new "mesmerish role" alltogether - Change the game DEEPLY to have ONE profession work better So, since: Quote:
To me, even just bringing back VoR would be enough to have the Mesmer shine a bit more. I used to run a VoR bar with some interrupts before the nerf: enemies were either interrupted or punished for not being interrupted. That, combined with an efficient party setup that had us protected by those skills I couldn't disrupt, worked for me. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 08:44 AM // 08:44
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#499 | |
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Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: behind you
Guild: bumble bee
Profession: E/
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Quote:
 rofl. anyway. good to know what other players are doing with their Ritualist.In case people are wandering, I do play a mesmer in PvE, she reached Drognar's Forge at level 17 all on her own, no running, or help, playing the game as it was intended by ArenaNet, without HEROES only using available henches. She's my no cheating, kick ass character
Last edited by pumpkin pie; Feb 23, 2010 at 08:53 AM // 08:53.. |
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Feb 23, 2010, 08:58 AM // 08:58
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#500 | |||||
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: England
Profession: Me/
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EDIT: I somehow missed this gem of a post. I know it's a huge quote but it's worth repeating because it points to so much of what's wrong with mesmers atm. [Truncated somewhat, sry drkn.] Quote:
Last edited by Smarty; Feb 23, 2010 at 09:30 AM // 09:30.. |
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